Blackboats boat

Postby stewie » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:57 pm

can any one tell me about childs play boats good and bad
thank you 8)
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Postby JamesT » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:33 pm

Yeah im interested to know too...something about a wakeboarding boat with massive engine+ballast???
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Postby darth » Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:49 am

Good curcuit race boats but not to sure about wakeboarding/skiing
Go high or go home!!!!
If it aint broke dont fix it!!!
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Postby JamesT » Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:48 am

Someone was telling me about a new wakeboarding model or something. They were rating it better than a supra...fat chance!
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Childs Play AirLine 22

Postby blackboat » Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:01 pm

I was up at Lower Porland the other day and dropped into "the shed". Which is what people on the river call ChildsPlay Marine. Heres what I found out.

The new Childsplay Wakeboard boat is called an AirLine 22.

Rob & Gary Newell are 4th generation Aussie boat builders.The Airline model is named after their recently departed fathers (Tim) first race boat which was a hydroplane called Airline which he built in his lounge room and then had to knock out a wall of the house to get it out.

Just so you know Childsplay Marine has built over 850 social boats under the model names of Apache & Commanche. Over 150 circuit race boats , with 6 litre boats that do over 120mph and blown boats that top 150mph.
Resale on both Apaches & Commanches are at near new prices.

Rob Newell is probally the best fibreglasser in the country. And brother Gary has designed and built the plug for this boat over the past 6 months.
Both of these guys are total perfectionists , their work is 2nd to NONE.

People who know the quality of the Newell brothers work are waiting in anticipation for the release of what appears to be one of the worlds best wakeboard boats. First boat due on the water in approx. 6 weeks.
This boat has been built by men who understand hydrodynamics and what makes a boat go, this hull has been designed to cut a massive wake and then it has been given the power to do it.

Want the spec's :
# 22'2 long , 97" wide , about the same gunnel height as a wakesetter
# large flared deep bow to keep the water out
# 454 big block engines as standard
# wakeboard speed at 2000rpm and around 20 lph fuel consumption
# Available in centre mount or rear mount.
# the Velvetdrive Vdrive is one unit and is unique to the AirLine 22"2
# 1100 litres of sub floor factory ballast with 3 min fill and empty times from force feed inputs and super high speed pump out systems.
# ballast tanks are baffled to stop surge and split to allow for ballancing
# ballast tanks have guages , as does the trim tab
#Seating for up to 14.
#New concept interior design allows for 5 facing backwards under the bimini plus the driver.
# 3" stainless steel swoop design tower
# JBL high output stereo system with 300w tower speakers
# OJ props , 5 inch multi guages(Perfect Pass/tacho)(Speedo/depth)(5in1)
# And here one for the guys who like to have a foot , top speed expected to be 55-60mph (as you would expect from the world record holder for mono inboard 158mph). This is not a dream , centremount Commanches with 454 engines do 65-70mph and they are 20"6.
#Hydrolic trim tab
#Air suspension drivers seat with lumbar support
#Hand & foot throttle , both operational simultaniously
#Easy access work station for weed trap , water sep , etc
#This thing is georgeous
# Good news , centremount with 454 from about $40k
# Rear mount with 454 from about $50k
#Bad news, build capacity of 12 boats per year
# Heres confidence , 6 orders already in place without a boat on the water

Just remember one thing guys the US does not have the monopoly on good boats . Connelly Craft and Cyclone ski race boats are the best in the world (made here) , Childsplay and Everingham circuit race boats smash the US circuit boat and lets not forget Spirit of Australia.

Watch for this thing , its amazing.
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Postby Somerset_Boarder » Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:21 pm

that aint a bad price at all!!! when you get some pics post em up, or do they have a website?
Sounds to good to be tru if they claim the best, not saying they wont be as they seem to have a load of ballest and all the "physics" of it all under tehre belt.

Any other info would be good...

Cheers

Josh
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Postby conde » Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:34 pm

my mates dad has a childplay racing boat and it does 100 mp/h. it has a massively enhacned 40 hp tohatsu and runs at about 8900 revs. they are good at making race boats, but unsure weather they will be able to produce a quality wakeboat that is "supra standard". CANT WAIT TO SEE IT THOUGH!!!!!
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Re: Childs Play AirLine 22

Postby Brownie » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:15 am

[quote="blackboat
This boat has been built by men who understand hydrodynamics and what makes a boat go, this hull has been designed to cut a massive wake and then it has been given the power to do it.

# 1100 litres of sub floor factory ballast with 3 min fill and empty times from force feed inputs and super high speed pump out systems. [/quote]

If they understand hydrodynamics why does it need 1100 litres? But that said it sounds great, really interested to see the finished product.
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Postby klaw81 » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:01 pm

Designing ski race boats is a bit different to designing wake boats - I guess you just take what you know works well for race boats and do the exact opposite!

I'd be interested to see how it turns out - I'm sure it will be well built but won't be surprised if it's not that fantastic first time out - remember the US companies (and some of the Aussie companies too, for that matter) have had plenty of time to develop something that works, and learn from their own mistakes. These guys would have to be incredibly good to get it exactly right first time out. Good luck to them but - go Aussie!
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Postby Jackass » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:14 pm

Hey guys,
Just browsing around the web of wake boarding and noticed the Child’s Play name come up. I went in for a closer look. Who wrote this story about the Newell boys???? Definitely not them. Being local in their district around the Windsor area and being a keen boater I know these guys personally. These guys are quietly spoken people and have been building good social and competitive Race boats for years. I’m lucky enough to have seen the new wake boat that is being built and it looks great, but the guys are not making any of these outrageous claims themselves, although most of the stats are correct with size and power plants. Believe me it is 1 big boat. Please don’t judge the new Child’s Play boat by the letter by Blackboat. It will be worth a look at. I can’t wait to see it on the water myself. I’m with the other guys letters and go for it Aussies.
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Postby MonsterMal » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:04 am

I actually thought blackboats letter was pretty positive?....
Last edited by MonsterMal on Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Careless » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:51 am

I think what jackass is trying to say these guys at childsplay aren't into big noting themselves, they let the proof lay in the pudding. The way way i look at it is these guys have definetley prooved to the world that they can build top quality boats, taking what they know about building'em and looking at what it takes to design a wake specific boat which compared to a race specific boat couldn't be any harder I'm excited to see how this boat performs especially since they have designed and built the thing from scratch and not tinkered with a hull design which was originally designed for slalom ''not naming any names''
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Airline 22

Postby blackboat » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:02 pm

Pics of Airline 22'2 .
Hey Jackass , fitting handle.
Your right about one thing , the Newell Bros would never write a beat up about their product like I did. They are modest to the core.
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Airline 22'2

Postby blackboat » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:11 pm

Brownie,
The boat will come with a standard 500 ltr , open the valve and let the water run in , sub floor system. The 1100 ltr system is in the pro model only and it is believed that this relatively light amount of weight will give pro level wakes. You have to remember that at Aust titles and NSW comps ballast is usually between 1200 and 1500 litres with an additional 400-500 kg of lead. The AirLine has been designed to never carry lead.
By the way your logo rules, I can watch it for hours.
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Airline 22'2

Postby blackboat » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:21 pm

This is a pic of the new Childsplay AirLine 22'2 wake boat next to the Childsplay Commanche 20'6 ski boat.
The Commanche is about the size of a Response.
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Boat

Postby mat81 » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:56 pm

Is it just me or does this boats lines look very "malibu"?
The underside of the hull in particular looks exactly like the VLX wakesetters...
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Airline

Postby blackboat » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:13 pm

When you see it in the flesh it doesn't look like a Malibu though I admit in this pick it does abit. The deck is super rounded and wide , not at all like a Malibus straight up , across and over. Internally the cockpit is 500mm longer than a VLX. Its alot wider in the bow than anything else on the market which is also hard to tell from this angle.
As for the bottom being like VLX , the Airline transom has a 15 degree V where a VLX has about 2 degrees. The Airline also has an anti-cavitation delta which tapers from the skeg on an angle up to the transom to (1) give the big 13.7x19.5 OJ prop it runs more clean water and (2) help drop the arse of the boat into the water to aid with wake creation.
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Postby Brownie » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:57 am

Blackboat they look good, cant say I have had any experience with these boats before.

You do not need that much weight for a pro sized wake. The Nautiqes do not need anywhere near this amount of weight for a competition wake. Hopefully JB, PJ or Matt can confirm what there comp set up is.

I understand that you need about 2 tonne in a VLX for a competion wake, I remember being told that the Orange Boarder VLX had 2 tonne in it at the Nowra pro tour stop two years ago and it was screaming its head off. To my knowledge all the others are pretty similar, even the Supra's still get extra weight for a comp wake.

At least these guys understand that you need alot of torque to move a weighted boat, any wake boat with a big block gets my vote. Can wait to see one in the flesh.
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Postby Brownie » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:58 am

sorry, should of put this in previous post.

Not that any of this matters as I will never need a pro sized wake.
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Airline

Postby blackboat » Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:58 pm

Your right Brownie , we hope it wont need all that wake either . The hull has been designed to sit into the water so with any luck we will get away with only 500 litres of ballast. But we will allow for more just in case with the prototype.
The guys I know with Nautiques run around 1400 kg of water,lead.
And after speaking to Shaun Watkins last year they run closer to 1800kg in their factory boat.
Be nice not to need any , eh!
Your logo still rules!
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childsplay boats

Postby alittleripe » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:59 pm

We used to have an Apache that was made by Childsplay, it was an awesome ski boat. Then dad sold it and bought an Outback . Its a bigger boat but it handles like a pig , has no top end and vibrates like a bastard.
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Postby cam » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:24 pm

From memory comp setup is this.

Centre tank full (250litre)
Rear tanks empty or half full depending on the water depth, amount of people in the boat, level of competition
Usually these people in the boat.
driver, 3 judges, rope dope, 2-3 camera people.
Sometimes get someone to try and keep the nose down if you have to weight the rear.
So 6-8 people (depends if the camera man can rope dope as well)
125kg of lead. This is moved around the boat to balance depending on where people sit and if the camera man is siting on the side of the boat or anything like that.

Planet X Summer Games - (top level riding, deep water at penrith), 250 water + 7 people + 125kg lead. So all up about 950kg, that if you consider people to be ballast, but as most people know you usually run with about 3-4 people in the boat anyway (7 if its a Nautique :-)
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Ballast in Nautiques

Postby alittleripe » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:02 pm

I know of a guy who rides on the Hawkesbury and competes , He's an older guy but he goes off. Huge Railie. Anyway he has a ski nautique and has a massive iron ballast tank instead of a backseat and he has huge amounts of lead sheeting laid all over the floor. Then he carpeted over the lead. I've seen this boat running on the river , the wake is bigger than massive.
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Postby wakeboardordie » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:19 pm

He's an older guy but he goes off. Huge Railie


ya call that goin off?
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goin off

Postby alittleripe » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:32 pm

Yes
I can do some flips and rolls and I'm crashing my 1st Mobe , but I'd trade em all for a mass railie . And this bloke does the best I've ever seen , even if he's over 40.
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Postby DaveRock » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:22 pm

Sounds like you're talking about Rob Scott. He has the biggest raley I've seen (apart from films).
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BIG Rail

Postby alittleripe » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:29 pm

I don't know the guys name but he rides on the Hawkebury . I've seen his Nautique around Wisemans Ferry where we ski but I think they are situated abit closer to Dargle. If its the same guy , as I said before "he goes off!"
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Postby Careless » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:35 pm

i'd like to know more about these boats, do mercuiser, indmar or any other companys like these make big block chevs into marine engines or will they be rebuilt in house marinizing. I love it when small aussie companys stick it to the yanks with good old "can do know how".

The quick fill feature would be an old but very effective concept, the use of the boats movement across the water to fill the bags "like why wouldn't every one use this idea" and I'm assumng it's something they may use in certain race applications.
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Postby shaunbo » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:44 pm

Careless wrote:The quick fill feature would be an old but very effective concept, the use of the boats movement across the water to fill the bags "like why wouldn't every one use this idea" and I'm assumng it's something they may use in certain race applications.


why would u want to add weight to a race boat?

the quick fill feature has been done before, on an american boat.
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Postby WSS » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:22 pm

they add weight to make the boat plough through the rough water, this leaves a smoother wash for the skier. Good to see someone in aus trying to actually design a boat that can sit along side the bigger yank boats. just hope they can finish them off as well, I hope they follow malibus standard on the interior and not matrix and lewis.
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Airline 22'2

Postby blackboat » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:52 pm

The 454 engines are imported brand new from Chevrolet in the crate. They come with a one year warranty (that they actually honor instead of trying to squim out of ). Then they are fully marinised using OZ products.
EG. Waterpumps you can actually run dry for 30 secs without throwing the impellor away. Watercooled stainless steel extractors that actually perform and last.

Small blocks (or mouse motors as called in US performance circles) develop approx 300 ftpnds of torque at 2500 rpm .
6.2 litre develop 330 ftpnds at 2400 rpm
454 big block (or Rat motors) develop close to 500 ftpnds at 1500 rpm.

Wouldn't you like to board at 2000rpm instead of 3400 rpm
Big blocks under load use alot less fuel then a small block because they are not working their asses off. And yes you can buy a BB from Mercruiser , got a lazy $28,000.

For your info , Parkes has a BB in his Xstar.

Pressure fill ballast systems have been used in Aussie ski race boats for over 20 years . Don't even think of handing that idea to some US wakeboat builder. Boats like Mirage & Cyclone racing have the ability to fill 300ltres in under 10secs and dump it just as fast. Or they used to be able to , but they were both bought by the Yanks becuse they couldn't build anything to match them . And then they were written of while racing. That was after both won world titles and competed internationally for over 10 years without a prior incident. Go USA.
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Postby mat81 » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:05 pm

Do you work for Childsplay blackboat?
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Airline 22'2

Postby blackboat » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:14 pm

No Matt , I dont work for CP . But I am a fan .
Have owned a Commanche and it was a top ski boat with a 6.2 Black Scorp. 60mph centremount.

I have ordered an Airline as blind Freddy could geuss.
Everyone else is allowed to rave on about their boats , why not me!
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Matt81

Postby blackboat » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:20 pm

Do you work for Malibu Matt??
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Postby mat81 » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:34 pm

No need to get upset! Just asking you a question...
What state do they import the motors in? Are they EFI or carb?
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Motors

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:29 am

Sorry Mat didnt mean to getshhity
Motors come into Sydney
Available in carb or efi . 454 or 502 cubes
I'm getting a 454 with an 850 holley. I know it sounds a little old to be running a carby but the main reason for running efi on the small blocks is the engine managment sytems. To extract the optimum performance out of the engine.
This is great but if it has problems (and I can give you a list of guys that have had major problems with their merc efi) you get treated like a ghost.
I can fix a carby myself , coudn't touch efi.
Peiople say that the efi motors get better fuel economy and are more reliable , speak to Scotty Kell at black diamond , he'd been running carby motors for years and swears by them.
Finally , Childsplay have built a couple of centremount Commanches with 454 carby motors. They are running 13x17 vdrive props throught 1:1 velvetdrives . They do 70mph , wakeboard speed is 1600rpm , ski speed is 2000 rpm , barefoot at 2500 rpm and they only use 10 litres of fuel per hour. These are actual figures not a fairy tale. We don't expect figure quite this good from the AIrline because its a much bigger boat . It alos uses a varying degree deadrise instead of a constant deadrise . But we think it won't be far off the numbers.
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Postby Careless » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:54 am

There you go shaunbo that is why you would add weight to a race boat, :oops: .

All of what blackboat is saying makes sense in regards to the big block revving lower therfore using these fuel. would be interesting to see what happens when the theory is put into practice.

In regards to marinising the engines will they be doing a salt water version with closed curcuit cooling sacrificial anodes and things like that.

$28,000 for a mercruiser big block is big money but I don't imagine buying a crate motor straight from the states would be a cheap prospect and when you consider an outboard 250 horse 4 stroke supercharged thing from mercury would be in the late teens it starts not to sound so bad. If carby is your go then who am i to argue.

Keep us updated with the progress of the build of your boat blackboat and um is it gonna be a red boat or a ?
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Postby Careless » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:32 am

Oh and sound deadening, as much as i like/ love the sound of a v8 as anyone who has been within 100 metres of my car will tell you i like 'em real loud as well, but if i ever went to the all out expense of getting an all out wakeboat for everyone to have countless hours of enjoyment i would want it vibration free with minimal amount of fumes and only a slight, very slight gurgle from the exhaust. All this might stem from the huge headaches i've been getting lately after a day on the water.

What measures are they taking to sound proof these boats ?
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Airline 22'2

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:25 pm

Hey Careless,
You'd be suprised at the costings on the big block.
Under $20,000 for crate engine, Velvetdrive Vdrive, Watercooled stainless steel extractors and marinizing kit like watepumps etc.

Its actually cheaper than a 6.2 Mercruiser Vdrive

The stainless extractors have anodes in the water jackets that have been designed for moored boats. These boats run in salt water without the need for a closed system, but if you want a heat exchanger , add about $1800.

The aim is to get the Airline as quite as possible. Exhuast system is still being designed , a combination of stainless inline mufflers connecting to a water box is the basics of it . They don't wont to choke the engine either.
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Merc 4 stroke

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:31 pm

Hey Careless , just a quick note , A Merc 4 stoke supercharged 250hp outboard will set you back over $35,000
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Postby Careless » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:47 pm

I just choked on my slurpee, over $35000 for an outboard good lord thats unbeleivable, i was just taking a guess on the price had no idea they could cost that much. I remember being told one of those 300 race motors they sell where 30 grand. but i spose they gotta make the money back which they spent on R&D.

Do you have any copy's of plans they have on the seating layout of the boat that you could post. as far as whether they will be trimmed better or worse than mals etc. i would say it is up to the requirements of the purchaser and budget in mind
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Postby shaunbo » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:30 pm

im not so sure about this boat. it sounds like it will cost 50k just to build one. and 6 boats per year? thats a small return on investment, which usually means a small investment in the firstplace.

and adding weight to a race boat is a sure way to lose. when was the last time anybody saw a fatsack in a ski race boat?
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Trim & layout

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:33 pm

Sorry no layout plans yet.

But I can discribe it as best I can.
Bowrider entry point is flat , without weird angular noses so theres nowhere to put a knee or a bum getting in and out. In fact there is a padded section on the nose for that very reason.
Deep bowrider with seats for four kids or a couple of hotties.

Drivers seat is Aircushioned for those big double ups and has electric adjustments , up , down , in ,out and even lumbar control, not a pop up cushion in sight.

Passanger bench seats 3 and passes across the walkway as does a Tige.

The passanger bech is separated by a 400mm foot well fro the side bench so that 3 people can sit on it without their feet up . They can choose to put their feet up if they like though.

Becuse the boat is 22'2 there is abot 500mm more room in the cockpit than a VLX which is pretty roomy.

The rear lounge raps completely around in a horseshoe effect . But on each end (ie behind the driver and at the passangers feet ) there is an adjustable arm rest that be hidden away or lifted into possition to act as an actual armrest or a passanger can use it as a back rest and sit facing backwards with therir feet on the seat.

This means that 5 people can face backwards , under the bimini and you don't have to move a thing, This boat is rated to carry 14 people.

There is no budget on the trim , just a specification .
That specifaction is Malibu standard or better or don't bother.

Boat will be FULLY carpeted with super heavy carpet and marine underlay.
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shaunbo

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:48 pm

shaunbo
you really shoudn't comment on race boats when you dont have a clue.
I've got a world title , two seconds in the world , 17 Australian titles , 2 bridge to bridges etc etc.

EVERY superclass skiboat and EVERY unlimited offshore raceboat run a high speed ballast system.

If the water is smooth and fast , you don't use the ballast.
If the water is sloppy and fast you run a bit and
if its rough as guts you fill up the ballast , trim in the sterndrive or outboard , drop in the trim tabs (you probally think adjustable hydrolic cav plates were invented by some US wakeboat company as well dont you Shaun) and generally try to make the skiers life as easy as possible by flattening the wash.

All of these condition can be encountered in one lap during a race so the systems all have to work s quickly and accurately.

I didnt say Childsplay can only build 6 boats a year , I said they have 6 on order and they can build about 12 Airlines a year , they still build 20'6 Commanches and numerous race boats as well.

Childsplay have been building boats in the same shed for over 25 years and they live on 28 acres of Hawkesbury river frontage that sells for millions.
I got a feeling their business is not having any problems . Even if in your wisdom you think otherwise.

Gotta go now NSW WakeBoard Ass meeting starting.
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Postby Somerset_Boarder » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:15 pm

that is quite a few titles!!! You heard of a Darryl Ross?
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Postby cam » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:33 pm

Anyway its probably time to take the "race boat" discussions to the race boat website......
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Postby Fordy_1 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:25 pm

The Airline seems to good to be true. A 'wakeboard' boat capable of 70mph :roll: ? I'll belive it when i see it. Doubt the big block carby chev will be as economical as you think although it revs low. how heavy is the boat exactly?
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Airline

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:56 pm

Wakesetter boarder , no sorry haven't heard of Darryl but I retired fron racing over ten years ago . Your a Queenslander , I observe for Ian DIpple when he won his Australian & World titles. Legend !!

Fordy , Those numbers are from actual 20'6 ski boats , thats how they run. Normally a small block in a ski boat uses aboat 15 lph a big block uses 10 lph . Because of the greater torque in a big block the more you load the boat the greater the disparity not the lesser. For eg . Your average wakeboat with a decent load of weight onboard uses about 25 lph with a big block that would be about 15 lph. Its relative the ratio unloaded is 2:3 the ratio loaded is more like 3:5 .
When you load the out of a small block powered boat like say the Tige in the Aussie world titles then the fuel useage jumps to 35-40lph
again the ratio grows and the big block should use about 20-25 lph.
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Postby Somerset_Boarder » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:08 pm

he was the first to ski the cook straight in NZ??
Are tehse things going to be like those boats with the loud arse motor u can hear coming from the other end of the lake. sorry if you allread answered that
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quick fill ballast system

Postby blackboat » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:35 pm

Aussie ski boats have been using quick fill systems for over 25 years in skirace applications. Hydrolic trim tabs have been used on all manner of pleasure craft including ski boats for over 30 years . Just because the Americans call it some fancy name and pretend it was all their idea doesn't mean it was . Don't let the hype get to you guys. We build every bit as good a boat as the yanks , we are just a little behind in the refinement at present , but not for long.

Who know how many people have died trying to break Ken Warby's world speed record. They have new technogy , computer simulators, better jet engines , Cad design sytems and unlimited budgets.
Ken built his boat in the garage. Aussies rule.
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